Mastering the Art of Convenience - Why Remote Patient Monitoring is a No Brainer w/ Guest Dr. Robert Shafer

More Efficient Results, More Personal Attention ... Less Visits - The Day a Patient Disappeared and the Clinical Results were Astonishing w/ CoHost Dr. Robert Shafer 

A patient can go a full year on aligners without an in-office check and still finish beautifully, and that fact should change how you think about orthodontic remote monitoring. We sit down with Dr. Robert Schaefer, one of the most effective users of remote monitoring we’ve ever seen, to unpack what actually happens when you stop treating virtual scans like a side project and start building your workflow around them. The result is less chaos, fewer wasted appointments, and a calmer way to run aligner treatment day to day.

We talk through the real reasons practices say “remote monitoring doesn’t work” while still scheduling chair time that no one can explain. The core issue is usually training and default settings: teams and doctors often look at a scan and jump straight to “bring them in,” instead of asking “how can we keep them progressing without disrupting their life?” We also dig into the control problem, the common belief that patients need to see you to justify the fee, and why convenience is often the strongest value you can deliver for busy families.

You’ll hear practical takeaways on aligner tracking, catching noncompliance early, avoiding the dreaded surprise appointment, and when it does make sense to bring someone in (like certain elastic or bite checks). We also cover how fewer in-person visits can free time to upgrade your patient experience, education, and coaching, plus why dabbling with a “10-case pilot” often leads to failure. If you want better Invisalign and aligner outcomes with fewer fires to put out, this one is for you.

Subscribe for more, share this with a doctor or team lead who’s still on the fence, and leave a five-star review if you want us to keep pushing into what modern orthodontic practice management can look like.

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Transcript

New Co-Host And Warm Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So if you're watching over on YouTube, I have a sidekick today. What's your name? Rob Schaefer. That's not your name. Don't you have a doctor in front of that?

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Yeah, I guess if you wanna. Yeah, I I think of myself as you know.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Doctor? Rob. That's one of the reasons why he's probably my favorite person, or at least one of. I can't say you're my favorite because then I'm gonna get Rich Porlupe, Matt Joseph. One of sounds good. Regina Bled. They're all gonna they're all gonna call me and say, hey, I thought I thought we were thought I was your favorite person. Exactly. Yeah, so he's he's right at the top of the list. I don't know about his son yet, though. Yeah, how do you think I'm gonna feel about your son? He's gonna be great. He's gonna be a good dude. Now, if you like me, yeah, he's even better. It's a no-brainer. Yeah, but he doesn't like cars. What am I gonna talk to him about? He'll get he maybe he'll get into it. He'll get in. He's gonna have to.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

He might.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

I'm just gonna talk about him so much around him that he's gonna force him into it.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Osmosis, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Welcome in, everybody. We are doing something new here. We're gonna see how it goes the rest of this season, but this is kind of a guest slash new co-host.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Do I get a fancy intro and everything like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

You're gonna get a fancy intro.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

If I if I can get that, I might consider it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah, this is Dr. Robert Schaefer to all of you, but there there are people that I see in this business that I don't I don't think they realize how good they are and how much ahead they are of everybody else. This is one of them, which is one of the reasons why I love you because you're so humble. I mean, there's ones out there that are even speaking on stage that think their you know what doesn't stink, and they're not they're not doing half of what you mind does. Especially after eating at Laloma. Yeah. Well, coming off the I got triple whammy. I had two meat nights at Josie's, come home, get you at the airport, we eat fajitas on the way home. I had like three or four days in a row with meat. My body doesn't handle meat well, as we saw yesterday. That's right.

Why Remote Monitoring Gets Misused

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Well, earlier, well, it was actually last season. Yeah, it was last season. No, it was this season. Earlier this season, I did a show around. So many of you out there are are using remote monitoring improperly. And then what I see, you know, talking to dental monitoring, grin, maybe use Invisalign. I see a lot of doctors complain that it doesn't work or you know, whatever the whatever the bias is, whatever the complaint is. And I sit there and I I go in clinic and I watch appointment after appointment sitting in the chair where I ask the assistants, why is this person here? And the assistants start thinking, and they're like, I don't know. I'm like, well, if you use remote monitoring, they they shouldn't be here. And this episode is gonna be good because I've never been in a practice in my life that uses remote monitoring more effectively than than this guy and in his practice. So I mean, why why do you think I guess really two things today? We're gonna talk about why people don't use it properly, and then also how you're using it. Because this guy, I mean, maybe you can talk, maybe you can talk about this. I mean, you see people 13 months for the first time. Sometimes it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, I think it got

The 52-Week Aligner Proof Point

SPEAKER_01 3:18

started. We started with the did a monitoring before COVID, and we didn't have the training, we didn't really know what we were doing. And so it's kind of by accident we had someone that went 52 weeks, had 52 aligners going weekly, and the thing was every she didn't have any no-go's, which for those that don't do demo monitoring means everything consistently fit every single aligner. So I didn't even really know she was a patient, yeah. Until the very end when I got notified that she was completed, and I look back and I thought, well, why haven't I seen this person come up before? And she had all goes, and so it was one year. And so that's when it made me realize as long as you're you're confident in your plan and you're getting goes, why why do you need to bring them in?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah, that's the question. I mean, I think we kind of know the answer. I think there's two. One, I don't think people unless you bring it up, because the the show I did earlier this year was a practice that uses remote monitoring well, and it and it's a big part of their practice, but there's still all kinds of appointments sitting in the chair, and the doctor, they didn't even think about it until I brought it up. So I think part of it is they're not even the assistants aren't trained or aren't even nobody's tracking how many people are there when they shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah, and you know, if that didn't happen to me, I don't know. I don't know if I would have been bringing her in more often or not. So it's kind of it was a good thing to to show that it does work and you don't really need to bring them in. Unless you just can't see something that you want to look for, you know, on it, like elastic correction and things like that. But it it's amazing. And then you talk about income per visit, if you look at it that way, you can't beat that, you can't beat it.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Well, that's we've done those numbers where you take six thousand dollar braces, you take six thousand dollar Invisalign and you add remote monitoring to it. It's crazy how much you make per visit. It's so much better than braces, it isn't even close. Exactly. But I think that did it take a while for you to I guess not freak out not seeing somebody for that long.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Not after that, not after that first thing. Okay. Yeah. Once that happened, you were kind of good. Oh, after that happened, it was good. And and I just saw a patient the other day, it was an extraction case, four by cusp of extraction case. Again, right around 52 liners, and first time I saw her back in the office was at a year. And she looked fantastic. I I can see and the parents were parents were happy, and yeah, no one's ever asked me, no one's ever told me that they wanted to see me more. So Yeah, that's a bias.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

I mean, it it it works

Letting Go Of Control

SPEAKER_00 6:20

out. Can you imagine mom coming in there? And this is a bias. I think this is the other piece where I think one of it, we'll talk about control here in just a minute and just being okay letting go, which I think for for doctors is not is not and then it's hard. Plus, you add some of the personalities, depending on your personality, it becomes even harder. But the bias of they want to see me, or we have to see them to justify the price, is so the opposite of how other people businesses look at it. You know, the piece of what justifies the price is the convenience is the convenience. S of you can charge more if you're not bringing them in. And I think that's the bias that people have to get over, too, is it's okay not bringing them in. They're not gonna get so you've never had a mom go, damn it, Rob, we wanted to come in here 20 more times. Never.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

And and and I've really never had anyone say they wanted a refund. What the money back? We're only here four times. Yeah, for you know, yeah. I'm like, well, I can see you four times or I can see you twenty times. It doesn't really well, it does matter to me, but because I don't really want to see it twenty times. Yeah. But the price doesn't change.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

So what do you what do you prefer? Well, but you are seeing them 20 plus times. It's just virtual, it's just a different way.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

True. But meaning, meaning though, that they're not running, you know, from work to school, sports, whatever the case may be, they're not running to my office that many times. I am seeing them, but so that that is true. Well, but it's just a convenience to them. It's it's insane how much time they're saving.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Yeah. Yeah, that's a the whole convenience word. That I don't know why, you know, when I spoke for dental monitoring for many years, you know, there was this list of biases they would give me, objections they would want me to talk about. And it was the patient wants to see me, which I don't know how arrogant somebody has to be to think that people want to see you. It's not that they don't want to see you, but they don't want to see you ten times when that's unnecessary.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

And especially if everything's tracking and you're bringing what are you bringing them in for? Yeah. I mean, what what it's a it's the five-minute appointment.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah, and then two hours for them.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Yeah. Well, that that's the piece right there. Is it it goes back to the control thing. I mean, I think if you're using DM, and and maybe I'm wrong about this, but I see that DM practices typically use remote monitoring more effectively than a grin or invisalines because you got the AI component that's just green lighting them. And then with the grin and the Invisalign, there's a I guess a human intelligence component that that human has got to be trained to look at it the way the AI does to be able to default to a green light rather than default to a hey, we gotta see you.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

But I I think I think they do a I think they do a good job, I'm sure. And I think it's easy to get trained on that. I think so too. So it's a different way of doing it. But well, that's a piece too, I think the control. Trust it. Trust either way, trust it. And then and then, you know, the the beauty of it is whether it's AI or human, at any point where there's a question about it, you get to have your eyes on it. Yeah. And then you get to make the decision on where you want to go with that.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah. Well, that's the so there, I think the industry as a whole, at least from what I see, is when they do put their eyes on it, they still default to why do we need to bring them in, rather than how can we use the tech to not bring them in. And that's a that's a big from the assistance to whoever's running your remote monitoring to the docs, that's a big mindset shift.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, because sometimes just because uh one particular tooth isn't fitting doesn't mean the rest of the plan can't carry through. And so you may override that and everything else is going well, just pick that back up later. Yeah. It's not well.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

I def back to the control piece. Is I know there's a lot of people out there when they hear you say, you know, we we delivered the aligners, and then the first time back, so their second visit, really, the first time back was 12 months, 13 months, 14. I can see people cringe just listening to that because of how different that was. What what a poor doctor I am. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Well, you know what yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Meanwhile, you're seeing them every week. So you're seeing them way more than the people that are bringing them in.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

I I can't imagine doing even aligner treatment. I can't imagine doing that without remote monitoring now because you don't before you give them maybe 10 aligners, you don't really know how they're fitting or not until they come in. And at that point, it's a little too late. Well, that's the piece.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

We haven't shot this yet. Maybe we will while you're we will while you're here, but the whole talking point of remote monitoring, you know, that first talking point that we teach around, you know, what traditional used to look like. And this is the part, maybe more than anything. I don't understand why anybody has to be sold to one, use remote monitoring, but then use it effectively. Is you see somebody today, everything looks fine. Then you don't see them again for six weeks. And for meanwhile, five and a half weeks go by and something's going off track and they make no progress, they show back up to your office going backwards. Everybody's had that happen. Remote monitoring puts an end to that overnight.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah, and I think if you don't, if you're not gonna use it, maybe some would say I'm using it to the extreme, but if you're not gonna use it to somewhat that degree, it's probably not worth doing. But but I don't know how you'd not do it because you so you see someone back after when they're not fitting your another appointment, you know, and another clin check to do, and another you know, yeah, all that compounds and it's so inefficient that you just yeah, you have to you have to commit and and let it prove you're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Well, you you catch non-compliance right away. You catch things that aren't tracking right away. Maybe they are compliant, and it's for whatever reason something's going off track. There's so many pluses to it, and the only the only negatives really there aren't any. It's the it's the bias that people think are a negative. And I think what we're gonna we're gonna shoot an episode. The only potential negative is second, I hear this all the time is don't you lose the relationship with the patient and blah, blah, blah. Which brings up one, how you have to use remote monitoring and how you communicate, but then two is whenever they are there, that appointment has to go very different than how it does today, which we'll we'll shoot another episode around that here in just a bit. So giving up control. So I guess let's look. So you have to give up control, you've got to use it right. And I don't even think you use it to the extreme because why if everybody, if they're tracking fine, why would you bring them in? Other than I think they I'm freaking out because I haven't seen them in so long. I feel that they need to be here to justify whatever.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

That would that would be it. Sometimes, you know, if you're using elastics and you're and you're look working on the bite, sometimes they don't give you the photo that lets you see that. So you may want to bring them in, you know, just for that. Yeah. Other than that, I I don't I don't know. I don't know. I can't think of a reason to do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

You've proven it because the cases that you do, like I tell everybody it's like sloth from Goonies. Like one you treat with this is a podcast from another time, is you're treating it with Invisalign when half the industry, an ortho doesn't even think you can do it with aligners, and then GP's going around telling people you're not an Invisalign case when with you everybody is. I that that in itself is another is another topic.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

So yeah, you combine er every case is an Invisalign case, yeah, potentially, and you're using remote mod that's a double whammy to you know for some hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

You're a quack. Yeah, yeah, you're a quack. I am yeah, you want to see them every week. How dare you? Yeah, that's the weird. See, that puts everybody out there you're thinking that you know the patient wants to see you. That's an arrogance that I can't even understand. They don't want it's not that they don't, but they don't want to see you unnecessarily. The convenience that you add to people's lives that allows you to charge more. The fact that you don't disrupt, I mean, for you all, a five or ten minute appointment is two hours for them. That's how you have to look at it. Well, and yeah, the loss of control, but you don't, I think you're controlling it more by using the tech to it to as a that's the ironic thing, sure.

Reclaiming Time And Raising Care

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, and you know, the thing is we haven't talked about is if you have problem, if you need more appointments for other things, I mean that opens the door wide up. Or if you want more time off, it uh enables you to do that too. It's just it just it provides opens up so many different things that I just and yeah, we can we can talk to my I mean I went from it's not a huge amount of patients compared to some people, but from 60 some patients a day to 30 just by you know yeah remote monitoring and seeing someone maybe you know a total of four to five times in the office versus 15, 16, 17, whatever. You know, so it makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Well, and that that too, I mean you know this. So you're the only practice I've ever been in that has a dedicated consult room for the existing patients to meet with the assistant, the ortho coaches at the end of every appointment, which is a brilliant move, but I can't tell you how hard that is to get installed into practice. Everybody pushes, like don't have enough time, blah, blah, blah. You don't have enough time because you won't use technology like this. So then once you once you go from 60 to 30, now you've opened up time to give the patients that are there your full attention, not treat them like a number and and transform the experience and the education they're getting throughout treatment. And and that's another piece that I can't understand why people can't wrap their head around is the opening up the time to reinvest it into other things that help grow you.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

And that's what I've enjoyed. You know, back when you get started, right? You have all the time in the world. You don't have very many patients. You get to spend that time with the patient and parent educating them. And this has kind of given me that back. Yeah. Where there is the time now to do that, whether it's to, you know, go over the treatment, show them the progress, cooperation situations. It's there there's time, there's time to do it now. Yeah. And and and there, but there isn't when you you're you're you're running and going and having the next person up, so to speak. And so that's been a welcoming addition to throwback where it used to be for me that I kind of forgot about and kind of enjoyed.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Was there and this for you it may not have been, but they're the ones cringing out cringing out there, which if you are, again, you've got to get over like your your fear, your anxiety is all bias. It there's no truth behind any of your concerns. It's just a totally different way of running your that's what you have to understand. You can't run it the same way you ran it when you don't have remote monitoring. It's a total flip on its head, which is why you have to go all in, which I guess is a topic for for another show. You see why I always say this? Like a podcast for another time. For another time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

What you need your shirt.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

I should wear that shirt. You should. I'm gonna go get it on later. Especially since we just started this out. I know. And I'm the one that gave you the shirt. I should. I should I should whip it out of the drawer and put it on. I'll do it for the next episode. I'll I'll put it on. But what was the hardest, if there was, the hardest thing for you to, I guess, give up in terms of, hey, we're not going to bring someone back until until there's a red light saying they need to for whatever reason. What what was the hardest thing for you to get over? Or was it just like it just made it just made sense?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

I think fortunately, it was that one instance of the first time we started using it, that first patient, so to speak, that went that long. I don't know that I had really any fear or trepidation after that. I think there's still, because you know, we're type A personalities usually, you know, and and we do like control to some degree. Maybe giving up how often you think that you needed to even have an eye on, yeah, you know, on it, but that's I don't that's just the beauty of it, is you will be notified when something doesn't go the way you have planned it out. So that's a peace of mind right there. I think that helps get you over the anxiety of whatever else it it may be. Yeah, you know, and and the beauty is, you know, it's up to you when you want to put eyes on it. So, okay, maybe you don't go that long. And it's not that I don't have eyes on it, you know. That's the thing. I do, but you can vary that. Maybe for some it may be they want to see it after every five aligners, maybe ten. You know, you get uh you get to choose your your comfort level.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

I guess my question would be is why would you want to do that?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Well, I'm just saying it's a way to ease into it. Yeah, that's a good point. You don't have to go all the way. You don't have it's a way to ease into it and prove to yourself that this is working okay after five and then after ten and and whatever, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So because for some it's gonna be hard to do that. Yeah, take you know, anything we do sometimes, it's just it's okay to jump in and and and take it at a slower pace. Yeah. As long as you're still trusting the tech, you know, the tech and and your ability of how you set the case up. Yeah. And and that sort of

Avoiding Surprises And Easing In

SPEAKER_01 20:51

thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Well, for the devil's advocates out there, I think what you're saying now will help. Because I I know there's so many people. I mean, that this audience, this the people that listen to the show are pretty they're they're pretty forward-thinking, very forward-thinking, innovative, and a lot of them are already doing a lot of this, but there's also a lot that aren't. So have you had a case? Because I know this end this industry is such a, you know, we we tried to extend monthly payment plans beyond the 18-month, you know, and and we got screwed. Okay, how many times did you get screwed? Once. Okay, so you changed your entire payment plan structure because of Joe that screwed you, not the 99 that paid you fine. So what what would you say, or and or have you had people where you did this and when they did show up, it was a cluster.

unknown 21:42

No.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

And no, not from not not from a treatment standpoint, but you know, that'd be another reason to have someone come in, is maybe for whatever reason they're not getting their note, you know, you find out that they're not getting their notifications, they just need one of those cooperation, yeah, pep talks. You bring them in for that. Yeah. But you're never surprised by what's going on. Yeah. You know what's going on, and you're able to Yeah, nip that cooperation in the bud right off the bat.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Well you just brought up a point that without even bringing up a point is that you're never surprised. Where I guarantee all of you have been surprised many times when they showed up again not using remote monitoring, and you're like, what the hell's going on?

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah, yeah. Either, you know, either something's not fitting, right? They're not on the aligner number that you wanted them to be on. Yeah. And and so, or yeah, they're high, their hygiene's bad, they're not what you know, whatever. And ultimately that's causing more appointments and more stress on everyone's part.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

That right there is the thing that that topic, that point, is what mind boggles me the most about having to convince people that remote monitoring is a no-brainer. Is that everybody g everybody has had the appointment where aligners wasn't fitting, they're wearing the wrong one, bad hygiene, whatever the heck it is, it screws everything up, no progress is made. You're like starting all over, whatever. Everyone says, Yeah, I've had that happen, and probably multiple times. And you say, okay, remote monitoring ends that overnight, and they still don't do it.

unknown 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

It's mind-boggling. I can't, and I think I don't know if this is my outside the industry eyes perspective, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

For some people, I guess it's new, and you know, you get into the routine. Sometimes change is hard for people. Yeah. And you get into the routine, you think you think what you're doing's working, and it's not that it's not working, but it could be it could be better. Yeah, it could be a lot less stressful, and you do get more time, and you can use that time however you want to use it, and you do need less team members overall. Yeah, we're gonna shoot that one for sure. I don't know. I would just encourage everyone to to give it a try. And as a win, you know, it's and especially you know, with the Invisalign. Uh now again, that may there's no I'm not that familiar with it because I haven't used it, but um, it would rely on a team member, you know, with eyes on it. Yeah, using Invisalign. Yeah, but anyway, I don't remember where I was going on that. But well it's change is hard.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Change is hard. Yeah. But I I would encourage people to to try it out. Well, that's I think if you're gonna at least if you're skeptical, whatever it may be, at minimum you should be using Invisalign. It already comes with your lab fee. So it it's nothing additional. It's a great way. It's a great way. They keep improving it. Like, is it the best? No, but it's way better than it was two years ago, and and they'll keep improving it. And it's already coming with your lab fee, so why would you not at least at minimum put your Invisalign patients in?

SPEAKER_01 25:03

And if you have someone watching that, it's still gonna save you appointments. Yeah. No doubt about it. You don't necessarily need the AI. It's gonna, yeah, it's still gonna it's you still won't have to be surprised versus someone coming in after their you know, 10th or 12th line or whatever your protocol is, and nothing's fitting, or they're on the wrong one. And listen, that that for that stuff, you know, that gets me frustrated. Well, yeah. And and you're reactive to everything at the time. And I don't want to re and I don't want to react that way to a patient, but you know, sometimes it's like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And yeah, and what aren't you doing?

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah, what aren't you doing? And it's just uh it eliminates a lot of that.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Well, it's a mindset shift for sure, but it's a no-brainer. And where we're gonna take this from here is there is a very specific way you have to run your practice if you are gonna go all in on remote monitoring. And so whether you're doing it already or you're not doing it, what we're gonna be talking about maybe in the next episode, but we're about to shoot it, is exactly how you need to run your existing patient experience after they buy. We're gonna give you a whole host of ideas on how to run the practice very different to maximize the remote monitoring in the existing patient experience because you cannot do it the same, and a lot of you do. I see that all the time. Remote monitoring doesn't work. It's the same thing with like the virtual appointment doesn't work. Yeah, it does, but you're not doing it right. So that's why it's not working. This is the same thing. You got to flip the practice on its head.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

So and that is a good point because if they have tried it and they're not doing it the right way, yeah. It's not gonna work. Yeah, it's not gonna work, and then you get frustrated and then you've dropped it and you think that the way you were doing it before was a better way of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah. Well, and and I know just whether I've spoken for them or just mingled with these companies, that one of their biggest, one of their biggest hurdles is getting people to go all in. With anything though. With anything. That's even with you know a bracket system, yeah. I see it with a minor system. Without a doubt. I see it with New Patient Group, I see another company, Right Chat, I see it with OrthoFi, remote monitoring, is they dabble. And one of the worst things you can do, like what happens all the time is you get this doctor go to AO, and they're like, Okay, I'll do it. I'll give it 10 cases. And I'm just like, that's a guaranteed failure.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

We all have we all all orthodontists have a drawer full of the pilots, the try the try the trying things. It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

It's yeah, it's a total revamp of the practice to get it to work. But thanks for joining me, man. Yeah, it was good. You made it through. There was no there was no blooper reels. Well, yet there will be. There will be. They're coming 100%.

Closing Thoughts And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Yeah. As everybody, or as always, everyone, thumb this up on YouTube, make some comments, be a leader, get the chatter going, share with anybody that wants to get better personally or professionally. Audio experience, make sure to write us a five star review. And until next time, we're out.